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SCOTTSDALE, Ariz. - Norm Charlton played for Lou Piniella for a long time, first in Cincinnati, then in Seattle.

"He was somewhat predictable," said Charlton, the veteran relief pitcher and Piniella watcher. "You could see him getting fed up with things, and you can almost predict his explosions. You can't predict what's going to happen when he explodes, but it's always exciting. There's never a dull moment."

Rich Aurilia spoke of a different kind of trait Dusty Baker demonstrated in San Francisco.

"He knew my wife's family," Aurilia, the Giants' shortstop, said. "Every time they came to visit, they would make me some pasole or green chili because they're from New Mexico. So any time we would go somewhere and he'd come across some, he would bring it to me in the clubhouse. That carried on to the World Series in Anaheim."

Managers seldom last for 10 years in any one place these days. No more 23 one-year contracts as Walter Alston had with the Dodgers. Few extended tenures last as long as Tom Kelly's in Minnesota. Still fewer managers voluntarily walk away from their jobs.

Yet Piniella and Baker came in together on the West Coast in 1993, and both left their jobs of their own volition after last season. Ten years gave their players plenty of time to get to know them. The players liked what they knew and had.

Baker, who has moved on to the Cubs, was about more than food to the Giants players. He easily could have been mistaken, for instance, as one of the players.

"He wore wristbands on the bench," said Kirk Rueter, who pitched for Baker's successor, Felipe Alou, before playing for Baker. "He was always pumping his fist and doing all that. In Montreal, Felipe didn't wear wristbands when I played for him. I don't think he's going to do that here."

Rueter was not suggesting that the absence of wristbands will make Alou any less of a manager than Baker. He and others simply noted the differences between the two men.

Similarly, Bob Melvin figures to be much quieter for Seattle and certainly less volatile than the manager who tossed bases into the outfield, drop-kicked hats all over the infield and once fought with one of his players. But the Mariners saw the other side of Piniella, too.

"I've seen him be fiery mad, and two minutes later it was over with," Jamie Moyer said. "He didn't hold grudges, and he just went on about his business. His intensity as a manager I thought was unbelievable."

Like Baker, Piniella spent a lot of time with his players in the clubhouse, refusing to hibernate in his office as some managers do.

"His sense of humor stuck out," John Olerud said. "He liked to joke around. Guys who have been here awhile have great stories about him."

It is perhaps a tribute to Piniella and Baker that their successors have not come in with radically different ideas.

"I don't need to come in and put my stamp on things and try to turn things around and make it my style, because things have gone well here," Melvin said. "I was a big Lou Piniella fan myself. He's an institution here. He's a baseball icon."

Alou, who managed the Montreal Expos for nearly 10 years, has returned to the team he began his playing career with.

"I know how important Dusty was to this team and to the entire organization," said Alou, at 67 the oldest manager in the major leagues. "They did a good job here, bringing the ship back to the surface."

SHORT HOPS: After nearly six seasons of batting Larry Walker and Todd Helton at Nos. 3 and 4 in Colorado's order, manager Clint Hurdle is leaning toward breaking up the left-handers and hitting newcomer Preston Wilson between them at cleanup.

• The early sensation at White Sox camp has been rookie switch-hitting outfielder Joe Borchard. The former Stanford quarterback hit two homers and a triple in a three-game binge and is making the club reconsider starting him at Class AAA. "When this guy gets it, it won't be a matter of who's going well,' " manager Jerry Manuel said. "He's just a guy you'd have to make room for."

• Early indications from Dodgers camp are that starters Kevin Brown and Darren Dreifort are both finally healthy. Brown (back) made just 10 starts in 2002, while Dreifort has been out of action for 20 months after a second elbow-ligament transplant operation.

• When former Padres infielder D'Angelo Jimenez ripped his old club from the White Sox camp for lack of veteran leadership and work ethic, San Diego MVP Ryan Klesko fired back: "He's the laziest teammate I've ever played with. That's 10 years."

• The Expos sold 7,400 seats during the first day of individual-game ticket sales, their highest total in the past 10 years.